Maj. Nathan Dial '10 - Talking "The Talk," Walking the Leadership Walk

"Relationships really matter. I think some of my successes would not be available without classmates or upperclassmen who poured into me or offered opportunities or offered help along the way."

"Control the controllables. And by that, I mean you control your energy, you control your attitude, you control your effort. And most importantly, you control how you respond to adversity."

"Don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Now, you can't be oversharing. But, you're going to know those spots where you can be vulnerable."

"I'm a big believer in that you need reps. I think to really hone your skills, your potential, I think you have to have some type of environment that nurtures that out of you."

"I think all the best leaders I saw, whether it was cadets or staff or faculty or AOCs, were all approachable and accountable."

FULL TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Our host is Dr. Doug Lindsay '92  |  Our guest is Major Nathan Dial '10

Maj. Nate Dial  00:00

I think we all have strengths, weaknesses. And so, being authentic to yourself of how are you building a team that highlights your strengths and weaknesses and being self-reflecting self-critical and doing what those are. So, I think that's probably the first thing I think for any leader. I think all the best ones I've been around have all been very, very self-aware. And so, I think that will be the challenge. I think for everybody, how are you self-aware around strengths or weaknesses. Don't be afraid to be vulnerable. I think, you know, you're gonna kind of pick and choose those moments. You'll know those moments. And so, I would try to tell people as they try to think about that.

Doug Lindsay  01:13

My guest today is major Nate Dial, a 2010 graduate of the Air Force Academy, with a bachelor's degree in economics. As a cadet, he was the fall 2009 Cadet Wing Commander, who was also the summer 2009 Basic Cadet Training Director of Operations, soaring instructor, Naval Academy exchange cadet, and he even spent a summer in Peru in an immersion program. He's a 13-year active-duty Air Force officer currently flying RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft out of Omaha, Nebraska. Major Dial’s desire to feed his mind and grow as a leader is pretty insatiable. He earned a Master's in Public Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School in 2012. He completed the Euro NATO joint jet pilot training program in 2013. And he even received a doctorate in political science in 2021, with his concentration being on NATO in the 21st century. He is a 2021 Air Force Academy Young Alumni Excellence Award winner, and in 2022, completed the Aspen Strategy Group Rising Leaders program. He is a student and analyst of public policy, and commits time to solving the complex problems that think tank startups’ boards and private companies sometimes face. He is also a member of the United States Air Force Academy Association of Graduates’ board of directors. Major Dial, thank you for being with us today on the Long Blue Leadership podcast.

Maj. Nate Dial  02:32

Happy to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.

Doug Lindsay  02:35

Do you mind telling us a little bit about where you grew up, you know, kind of where you started and what that was like, and what kind of influences had an impact on you when you started?

Maj. Nate Dial  02:43

For sure. So, my dad was in the Army 30 years. And my mom is a professor who traveled the world with my dad getting a job at the local college, wherever that was. So obviously military was huge for me growing up with around a bunch of the kid. And then education was huge, too with my mom. So naturally with those two items, discipline, reading a lot. And I was a pretty decent little athlete growing up — I played basketball, golf and soccer growing up as a kid. So, you put all that together and naturally kind of led me towards a life of service and a life of service through the military with hopefully one of the academies.

Doug Lindsay  03:18

You moved around a lot during that 30 years. I'm assuming were there any places that really left an impact on your memory for you.

Maj. Nate Dial  03:25

For sure. So, just to give you a quick rundown: So, born in Buffalo, New York, spent time in Seoul, Korea; Richmond, Virginia; Columbia, South Carolina; Carlisle, Pennsylvania; and my dad ultimately retired in ’03 in Richmond — that's pretty much home now. They've been there ever since [in?] the same house. The places that stick out, everybody has a kind of an indelible mark on my life. But Richmond, Virginia, really is home. I mean, I was there kindergarten through third grade, and then I returned 10th through 12th grade. So, it's pretty much my central upbringing at this point. So that's, that's probably the place I would call closest.

Doug Lindsay  04:00

And was that idea of, kind of with your dad serving? And if I remember right, your grandfather served as well. A path for you. Is that why the Academy kind of resonate or you decided to go there? What was that thought process?

Maj. Nate Dial  04:12

That was huge for me. And so, you’re trying to figure out a place to serve that you feel comfortable. As a kid, when my dad was at the Army War College from 1999 to 2003. You get to see a lot of different Academy people come through Naval Air Force army, my dad's ROTC guy from Northern Illinois. So, a lot of those people, when they would see me — especially as a kid — I played a lot of golf. So, my dad ironically didn't play a lot of golf or wasn't very good. And so, as you know, as an officer, especially, oh 506 is at the War College golf huge. And so, he would actually have to go fill in for him a lot of times because I was a pretty decent player. And so, I would be 12, 11 years old playing with these Academy guys like, “Hey, Nate, like if you keep progressing you'd be a great Academy kid.” So that was pretty much embedded in me from age of about 9 to 13. And it kind of never really shook away from me growing up, so it was always kind of in the background in the foreground for me my whole life.

Like all kids around my generation, I was 6 years old, I saw “Top Gun.” So, I wanted to be the black Maverick. I wanted to go mach 2 with my hair on fire. But a couple family, friends and uncles have boats and I got seasick every time. So that eliminated the Navy. And I don’t swim the greatest. Definitely eliminated the Naval Academy. I didn't like camping as a kid either. And so, my dad, being an Army guy, was like, “You're just not built for it. You're not built to be an Army. So, you should do that we do the Air Force Academy thing.” It's kind of matched up to the dad's wishes, and also my desire to fly. The Air Force Academy was the only Academy I applied to; I only did that in Air Force ROTC coming out of high school. So, I was pretty determined that that was my direction.

Doug Lindsay  05:42

When did this idea of leadership really kind of start to come on if you could spend a little bit of time talking about that?

Maj. Nate Dial  05:48

Yeah, I'll kind of back up in time on that one in terms of service and leadership. It really started when I was 12 years old. So, in fifth grade, again, moved around a lot. So, I went from a really affluent area in Chesterfield County in the suburb of Richmond, Virginia, to Carlisle, and went from a brand-new school with one of the best libraries you could ever imagine to a not-as-great school and not a great a very old library. And so, as a huge reader as a kid, I was pretty determined to try to help and try to figure out a way to improve that library at the school I was at and Carlisle. And so, I was inspired by Oprah Winfrey; she had this campaign going at the time where she put these large water jugs in the 50 largest malls in America and said, “Hey, people, just throw your loose change in these jugs and our goal is to try to send 50 kids to college.” And they ended up raising a ton of money — enough to send 56 Honestly, kids to college. And that really resonated with me as a kid, I was like, I want to do something like this on a smaller scale for my elementary school to raise money for books. So, I had this idea. I pitched it to people at my dad and mom's work, and they agreed to match whatever money we raised at my local school to buy books for kids. And so, I made this presentation to the school principal and he said we had other funds coming in — “We’re not really interested in your program that you want to try to pitch us on.” I continue to read and kind of do it on a local level in my own house; I ended up having over the course of the year about 120 150 bucks that I made, got the matching from my mom and dad's work, and then bought books for every kid in my elementary school class. And so, I wrote Oprah about it and about she inspired me everything else. And then she had me on the show and then donated $5,000, worth of books in my name. And so, at that point, it really kind of made a mark on me of, you know, you can make an impact on this world if you're passionate inspired about a problem or a challenge that you want to go solve. And so, I think that as a 12-year-old kind of got that going in me. And so, it was kind of always looking around places. And so, given the dad service, and then all the absolutely amazing opportunity at the Air Force Academy that kind of led me towards that of like this place will help me go to my highest of heights, whatever is possible for me for sure.

Doug Lindsay  08:08

That idea of wanting to make a difference, right? Why did you feel that calling to want to do that?

Maj. Nate Dial  08:14

I'm not sure if it's really like, “Why me?” I think it's more like, “Why not?” It's kind of how I would answer that. And my parents were always really good about anything that I was passionate about, if nurturing, and if it's educational. If it was about impact, my parents really nurtured it. And they were like, OK, like, let's continue to explore, like, let's ask questions, like, help you. And so, I think having a foundation of a family like that, that didn't put any limits on me and said, “We want to nurture that desire to help.” I think that's probably the why — was that I had this idea. My parents didn't shut it down or poopoo it; they were actually like, yeah, they put gasoline on the fire — let me go burn a little bit more. So that was probably how I would say that's the why. What drew me to the academy over other schools was, I wasn't going to be judged just on my academic performance. It was the academics, it was the military, it was the athletics, it was the leadership. There was so much going on there that I was very much a busybody as a kid. And going there was going to be able to feed that busy bardenas Because there's so much going on, there's 36 hours’ worth of things to do what a 24 hour day. So, you were never going to be bored at that institution. So, that really spoke to me. And what's also nice about that, too, is when you have a bad performance, let's say in a Physics 215 class, you can take your frustration down on the intramural field, or help instruct somebody as a soaring IP. So, I think that ability to try to nurture every piece of my brain, any kind of desire I had, was awesome there. So, I think it was just super enriching because again, I would talk about the Academy is it's a, it's a will issue, not a skill issue — that if you have a willpower, there's people at that place that want to help you get there and want to help you succeed. Whether that's your classmates, your upperclassmen are the instructors, people really invested in people becoming their best selves. So, I think that's how I would probably encapsulate my journey there.

Doug Lindsay  10:08

And so there was obviously the individual drive from yourself. But did your faculty staff play a role in that? I mean, how did that shape how you showed up as a cadet?

Maj. Nate Dial  10:17

Yeah, huge. So, I was a track, I think my first two years at the Academy, and my career got ended because of two knee surgeries. So that happened. But what spoke to me around the track team was the late Ralph Lindeman, who was the coach there for many, many years. When you're in your offseason there, he gave you every Wednesday off to go to EI. And so, I always helped me as a freshman understand that athletics isn't my job, my job is school and being the best kid that I can be. And so, I think that's me with a really big foundation around like how to balance and compartmentalize the many parts of your life. So, that was a great foundation as a freshman have, I have this athletic performance I have to do. But at the same time, at the end of the day, like, I'm still a student, I needed to get the best grades I can get, I need to try to make sure I can perform as much as I can. So, I think having that was really huge for me initially. So, that was a great foundation, and an amazing AOC. My freshman year was all about performance. And so, he was a pilot beat to pilot and he was about the numbers. And so, I was a pretty good performer in terms of, like, the knowledge test and my academics and athletics. And so, he was much like, “Hey, man, based on your numbers, like, you can go as far as you want at this place.” And I never really thought about that until we really sat me down and [he?] told me that after my first semester, so that again, like, continue to fuel the fire of, like, just keep pushing the envelope and do as best as you can here. And then the same like my sophomore in junior year at an amazing AOC F 16 pilot type, who continued to nurture me. And then my senior year, my IOC was a maintainer who, again, like, just gave me a lot of that, like broader leadership around how to inspire others. So, I thought all that leadership from the AOCs was great. And then my instructors were amazing. I still talked to my adviser, and my thesis adviser to the Academy. Now, I probably sent him an update email every six months. So, those people who invest in me, I'm always very thankful. And I know I wouldn't be here without a lot of their help and, just, nurturing for sure.

Doug Lindsay  12:15

Was Cadet Wing Commander ever kind of something you've thought about? Or is it just something that kind of just happened as a byproduct  of your ability to kind of lean in and take advantage of those opportunities?

Maj. Nate Dial  12:24

Also a crazy story. So, I actually was pretty determined to leave the academy after my sophomore year. So, I just, I think everybody that sophomore year is just like the doldrums where everybody kind of just does not like that place. And I was definitely one of those people. And, you know, who's grinding, nobody cares, right? You're a 3 degree, you're not the cool freshman everybody picks on. And you've got so many more days left junior senior year that you're like, “I'm just out on this place.” So, I applied to a couple of universities to transfer and there was two other friends of mine who were doing the same thing and we were helping each other out. The other two people ended up leaving — one went to [the University of Pennsylvania]. And one went to UCLA. But I ended up staying. And so, I just kind of prayed about it and said, “Hey, you know, should I leave? Or should I stay.” And I made a pact with God that if I got into a couple of different programs, I would stay because it meant that I was doing really well. So, I was soaring IP, a Navy exchange, and then it was the summer immersion to Peru. If I got all three of those. I was like, “I have to stay, like, I'm just doing so well here. And it's such an amazing opportunity. You got to kind of have to stay.” And so, I stayed. I went to the Naval Academy. And while I always wanted to go there. And back on the East Coast, I'm seeing a ton of my friends on the weekend who I grew up with, being a Virginia kid, I was absolutely miserable at the Naval Academy. I don't want to get too much into I but it was bad. It was bad in terms of the kids I had a room with weren't the greatest. There's tons of rules. They're how they trained freshmen is so different than how we do. The culture is very different. And so, it actually made me appreciate the Academy that much more. And I got back to the Academy my second semester, junior year after the exchange, and I was like, “We got to make this place fun. Like you guys. We don't know how great we have it here compared to the other academies.” And so I was on this campaign of like, we got to make being a cadet fun again, like that's what we got to do. And maybe people appreciate this place. And so, I remember talking to my IOC at the time, and having this kind of epiphany that no, this place is awesome. I'm so happy to be here. This is great. So, it's so much awesome opportunity here. You know, “What job should I apply for as a senior?” and he was like, “Nate, like, you should apply for wing commander. That’s like “Nah, I’m not that guy. I’m not that person.” And then he kind of broke down whatever the cadet equivalent to a surf was. And then just that kind of inspiration that I had the time to try to help him make it a better place for cadets and he was like to take that energy and try to pour into the cadet wing I think it'd be great for him and so his again his fuel to the fire for be maybe think about it and then we're pretty determined person so once I kind of get myself locked onto a vector then I give it my best effort.

Doug Lindsay  15:01

Did it end up working out? You kind of had that epiphany — that kind of figuring it out of I own this, right, this is me and what I can do, and I'm gonna make the most out of it, You came to the Academy, did you know that flying was the way to go?

Maj. Nate Dial  15:12

One-hundred percent. I mean, I set up for the Academy to fly, pretty standard person. And that way, I got to appreciate it more though, because I had this really interesting peanut allergy. And there was a time where I didn't think I was able to fly because of this peanut allergy. And so, I didn't go through all these DOM or physicals which I'll describe what it was, I had to eat peanut butter over the course of eight hours, and every 20 minutes, they doubled the dose started with an eighth of a teaspoon all the way up to a half a cup. And they had all the like the gonads on me that monitor everything. And so, that was like the ultimate last test — I had to do the past to make sure I'd you know, wouldn't die if I ate peanut butter, I guess in the plane or have like some type of shock or incapacitation. So, I passed that. But that, like, 3-month process of all the physical tests I had to do around this peanut allergy had me really thinking about what else what I would do. And I just felt really fortunate to be able to get through that and so be able to live my dream. And so, I really do empathize with people who have some type of medical issue who got to the Academy, thought they were gonna be able to fly, then found out later that they couldn't, and then, you know, what do they do next? And so having had that journey, I can definitely empathize with cadets who have that I've talked to decent people who've had that.

Doug Lindsay  16:30

With the success that you had at the Academy, what were some of the, maybe the leadership principles that you pulled out of your time at the Academy.

Maj. Nate Dial  16:38

The first thing I would say is, relationships really matter. I think some of my successes would not be available without classmates or upperclassmen who poured into me or offered opportunities or offered help along the way. I think we all can talk about as grads, people who are still in our lives, right, they're the best men in our wedding, the groomsmen in our wedding or bridesmaids in our weddings, right? That's kind of how it works out. So that kind of family atmosphere there, it's very important, and the relationships matter too because you're going to fast forward from graduation, you know, eight, nine, 10 years, you're going to weapon school with these people, you're in combat with those people, you're in on the radio. So, having that relationship builds trust and builds Trumps means accomplishing whatever the goal is, or the mission, especially in hard times. So, I would say relationships matter. Therefore, how you treat people is very important. When in doubt, take the high road. When in doubt, err on the side of grace. Those are the kind of messages that would tell somebody. So, that's a very interpersonal skill I would talk about for the leadership part of it. And then the second thing I would talk about is being approachable and accountable. I think all the best leaders I saw, whether it was cadets, or staff, or faculty, or AOCs, were all approachable and accountable. So, I thought those were the two things I would hang my hat on going forward. And they just understand that you'll get better with reps. So, putting yourself out there, trying new things out, not being afraid to fail. When in doubt, ask questions to people who've already been there before. I think those are probably the biggest things I've definitely learned as a cadet.

Doug Lindsay  18:11

You graduated in 2010. You kind of went off doing the flying thing. Very intentionally you have stayed connected to the Academy.

Maj. Nate Dial  18:20

It's hard to give you a “why” but I can kind of give you a feeling I think of the why. So, the feeling I can talk about in this is around kind of like your first relationship with a significant other, where you have all the highs or the lows, you care about that person a lot. Even if you go your separate ways to something else, you always kind of keep tabs and you want to make sure that person is in a better place than when you whenever you kind of broke up or did something different. It's kind of the same way I feel about USAFA. It's the first decision that I made on my own was choosing to go to that school, obviously, I talked about choosing to stay to and stay committed to it and that process. And I knew I wouldn't be here without those four years. And so, I think that kind of feeling of connection and that relationship being such an integral part of my life — I could never really just separate away from it completely. And so, I think that's part of the reason why of always staying connected and then always figuring out ways of how can I support in a way that is meaningful?

Doug Lindsay  19:27

Can you talk a little bit about some of those ways that you support in terms of what you do to kind of help give back with your time and what you do?

Maj. Nate Dial  19:34

I think like many graduates find cadets or cadets find you. So, I think it's a very basic one that I've done from Day One is given the profile. A lot of people hear about my story are interested in some of the similar things I already did. So, cadets will reach out and I could probably talk you through a litany of cadets since I've graduated who I help out with that and stay connected with this. The second thing too is obviously now with the endowment that we started. So, put money in at a small amount was $20.10, a little bit of class pride there a month into a fund that went with the EO G. And then, over time, our goal was to come back to the 10-year reunion, and then figure out what we want to do with the sum of money. So, through that program, we were able to raise $330,000, of which we put to her and 10,000 of those dollars into an endowment, that at the time 2021, you all remember COVID. Seeing some of the stories online around the cadet experience was really heartbreaking. And so, we wanted as a class to try to help with their morale. And so, we have this endowment that gives $5,000 to the No. 1 cadet squadron for their morale fun. So, it's as no strings attached you can kind of get given DoD and government. But it's if they want to redo their SAR they can do if they want to go to Chipotle and have a big Chipotle dinner, they want to go to Top Golf or rent it out with like whatever they want to do to increase their morale as a squadron. We fund that with $5,000 every semester. And so that's a way of giving back if you're trying to find we have these funds, we have a need of the cadets. And so that's how our class decided to do that. And I just know, I'm a connector, I'm a conduit for that. So, I'm able to help with that. And then obviously, recently, this past May, when some people on the board call it so it wouldn't be an appointment or on the cog board jumped at the opportunity to try to lend my services and ideas for sure.

Doug Lindsay  21:31

There were highs and there were lows. To have those highs and really have those successes, we've got to understand those kind of low points too, and who we are. And it sounds like the highs may not have been possible if you didn't kind of sort through those lows as well, right?

Maj. Nate Dial  21:45

For sure. I think it's Conor McGregor’s Trainer that has a book that either we're winning or we're learning, we're accomplishing the goals, and you're gonna get some things out of it. I think all of my greatest growth moments come through some type of failure or hardship. And so, I think I'll give an example as a cadet right is, I had never done poorly, right, academically, but I remember failing a GR in a super high level Spanish class as a freshman that I, like, I validated into. And so, it was the first time where I had to humble myself and ask for help. I was the only non-native Spanish speaker in this class. And so, asking people for help of like, “Hey, I don't get this,” or, “Hey, I need to study with somebody or something else.” I was a first time I had to humble myself in academic setting to do that. And so that was an opportunity to learn of that you can't just blast off on your own. If you want to get to this place, which was get an A in this course, you're going to need to lean on some classmates and ask for help. And it'd be like, “Hey, I don't get this.” And that is a strength. And I think a lot of us, when we get to the Academy, we're also Type A personalities who are highly successful, who have a lot of positive affirmation coming into that place, it's the first time you get smacked in the face with any kind of not high performance, slash average performance, slash below average performance. And so, I think how do you recover from that is huge in the growth. And so there's tons of opportunities, like, that I can talk through at the Academy where, at the time, it was a low, but it really was something to kind of harden me for the next situation, whether that was to give empathy for another person, or it's prepared me and harden me for the next challenge that's coming second, when it comes again, then I'm successful, and he would overcome this situation.

Doug Lindsay  23:25

It sounds like, you know, from early on, you know, again, your example, your grandfather example, your father, your mother and all that, that idea of service. And that really idea of kind of giving it your all — how does that influence your leadership today?

Maj. Nate Dial  23:38

So, the first thing I tried to do is just offer two things that one, I'm available. So, this isn't a onetime relationship is what I always tried to lead with is that if I'm taking time out of my day to talk with you, whether that's in an official capacity because you're in my chain of command, or an unofficial capacity, that this isn't a onetime conversation, that I understand that not everybody is prepared or has questions or answers or challenges right now, that might come in the future. So, hey, I'm available when future things happen, if I'm the person that you want to come to with these things you think I can help. So, that's the first thing of establishing that is, this is a lifetime relationship. If as long as you want to tap back in, you got me that I'm here. So, I think having that kind of long-distance trust is really huge to establish to you're saying it's a journey that people are going to it's cyclical that we're going to have certain periods or seasons in life. And then the second one is: I normally try to lead with how can I help you? Because I think a lot of times we want to give people advice and not try to answer people's questions. And so, I tried to lead with answering your questions of, “Hey, like, how can I help?” and sometimes it'll lead you to a lot of places, but I want to just be impactful. I want to leave everybody when I meet them better than when they before they met me. And same with every organization will leave every organization better than when I entered it. That's kind of the goal is every time.

Doug Lindsay  24:59

How do you find time to do that? Or how do you make time to make sure that you're setting the time to be available to folks when they need it?

Maj. Nate Dial  25:07

It’s gotten crazier over the years. And my wife is really good about this in terms of helping me schedule my own time. But I have a literally a standing 6-hour window every Sunday from after church to like 11 o'clock to 1700 to 5:00 p.m. every Sunday, that I just block out for people to be available. So, people hit me up and say, “Hey, Nate, I was like, well, x, y, or z.” And I just send them, “Hey, this is the time blocks, the next couple Sundays. Let me know when you want to fill in.” And so, I kind of compartmentalize that, because another part I think of leadership is being fully present. So, we're all super busy as you're talking about. But for that six hours, I am yours, for whatever block of time, 30 minutes, hour or 45 minutes, I am yours. And I'm fully committed. And if you ever read ahead for me, I've prepped for that for 1015 minutes really quickly to get myself smart on it. And then I'm here and I'm available. So, I think having a dedicated predictable time for people is heavy. And then I always tell people to, like — if you email me, give me, like, 72 hours, but I never know what's going on in the world. But pretty much now we're always connected to the internet. So, it sent me two hours, I'll see it now even I'm busy. I'll tell you, “Hey, I'm super busy. I'll get back to you in (insert timetable).” But I try to make it predictable, and then hold myself very accountable to those times.

Doug Lindsay  26:20

So, you put that block of time there, right, where you're really being fully present and investing. What is it that you've taken away from that intentionality on time to be with other people?

Maj. Nate Dial  26:29

Ninety-five percent of the time it’s enriching. Because I am a classic extrovert, people energize me. So that's all start with that. And most times, people are really inspiring, whether it's some of these new cool things that they're doing, or they're trying to pursue that it's like, "Oh, man, that's awesome. I hope that person gets there.” Or I'm inspired by their tenacity to try to overcome something or get there. Or I'm just inspired by them to keep my game up. Because when you have a mentee who's climbing these ladders and doing it, it's not like we're always keeping score, but where we got to get better. It's like, "Hey, like, I need to keep pushing the envelope,” to like, ”What am I doing right now?” If these people are calling me and asking, I can't stagnate, I gotta keep pushing too. So, it's kind of a pseudo-inspiration to kind of keep my game up, too. So, I think all the above is always really helpful. More recently, in my 30s, I have noticed and tried to make myself more available for the tougher conversations, especially with friends, as people have recently had one of my best friend's son died, who's under 2 years old. So, making time for people like that to sometimes the inspiration is just being there as a friend to be that they're willing to share their vulnerabilities with you because, right, like, it's really easy to celebrate things with others; it's kind of tough to talk about when you're not in the best places. But I think as a friend, when people can find you in those areas, that's really powerful. The older I get that people were comfortable being vulnerable with you, and trust you enough to be vulnerable with you. And so, I think those times, while they're tough emotionally, make me feel good about myself that people feel that they can come to me with those items as well. And so, we're talking about a lot about my successes, which obviously, I'm very humbled by and pray to God that they continue to go, but some of it is about how do you help people get through those turbulent times? I think those are some of the things that I think through myself that are some of the most rewarding items, when people are kind of going through those doldrums, or going through those dark places, or those valleys, of helping them get on the other end of it to be a part of that process. That's really, really, really, really powerful for me.

Doug Lindsay  28:41

You'd also mentioned that it kind of challenges you to be better. So, I've noticed what you've chosen to do both educationally you get a master’s, Ph.D. Not everybody does that. So, you were kind of doing that to kind of challenge yourself mentally and intellectually, but also your writing, and you're putting out pieces — thought pieces— and research as well. What's been the impetus for that? Is it just to contribute or to continue to push yourself?

Maj. Nate Dial  29:04

My dad used to always talk to me about as a kid, don't just bring me problems bring me a problem and a solution or a potential solution. And so, when I identify items that I think are suboptimal, I think I have a duty to whatever I'm criticizing, to add to the body of work to try to get to a solution. So, talk about some of the research right on the NBA. I'm a huge basketball nerd. And so, the research I did around the impact of college basketball and McDonald's All-Americans it was because I was truly curious about is the one and done rule that great or was two years of college be optimal? Or how about more? Right? So that's a question I had. And so, I was like, “Well, I have this skill set around quant research. I'm passionate about it. So, let's push it there.” Or more recently of the debate around the best 75 players in the NBA or 70 in the 75-year history of the NBA. That paper that I put out there was OK, like how could you evaluate that more quantitatively and objectively than writers talking about how they feel about people? So those kinds of items, there are obviously the piece that did back in 2020 around race in the military. Like those are kind of identify a problem or identify a situation and just try to help move the conversation forward through my either skill sets, or works or experience.

Doug Lindsay  30:21

Nate, one of the things that you had written before was a conversation that you shared a little bit about between your grandfather and your father to you about the talk. Do you mind talking a little bit about that and sharing a little bit about what that meant to you?

Maj. Nate Dial  30:34

Sure. So, The Talk, it's a tradition where minorities explain to their adolescent child really males who are coming of age, some of the stereotypes that they gotta overcome, and try to give us some techniques of how to overcome them that they've developed over their time as an adult, or in their same situation. Talking a lot of friends, obviously, since my article published, you got a lot of highlights back in 2020, around the George Floyd summer. It's a tradition of a lot of different minorities. So, you kind of takes different shapes, but it's very similar overall concept. And so, with the talk, there's a couple of things that are pretty important is that it's dependent on time, and it changes and evolves. So, I'll use my own family as the examples that kind of talked about in the article, which is, so my grandfather was in the conscription World War II segregated enlisted military. And so, he served there, finished his tour of duty, moved to Chicago, had a GI Bill tried to use the GI Bill to buy a house and a VA loan, but couldn't because right, redlining was very apparent in Chicago. And so, you can only buy a house in certain parts of Chicago, where you get a loan. And so, you know, what he learned in his time was that what's on the piece of paper, in terms of what happens may or may not apply to you as a Black person in America in his time. So, that's what he kind of taught my dad. So, my dad has had situation he goes on to college ROTC Commission's he's out in Germany on his first assignment, and my grandfather goes and visits and so he has my dad go through the gate multiple times, and my dad at the end of it. So, the second or third time through the gate is kind of like, "Hey, Pops, what's up?” and essentially, my grandfather, so my dad is like, “I never thought I would see a day where a white enlisted member would have to salute my son,” you know? Right, showing like, OK, like this, this progress is happening. And America and so he's seeing that in real time, too. And so that kind of similar moment, I think, happened with my father and I, where my dad's probably cried in front of me, like three times his entire life. And I can definitely remember the first time which was the parade for Parents Weekend, the fall, when I was cut Wing Commander, where you come down the parade field, you're the No. 1 person coming out, you lead everybody, the 4,500 cadets, and the wing. And so after the parade happens, you talk to your family, and everybody’s around. And my dad was like, visibly emotional. Because I think for him, he never thought in his wildest dreams, his son would ever have that kind of an opportunity or potential, like he thought I could get to the academy, and graduate and probably get a pilot slot and do my thing, but I don’t think he ever thought I could be the cadet Wing Commander. And so I think he was just really overtaken about again, like the progress that has been made, and in our country and whatnot. So that’s kind of the talk. And so I’m quite looking forward to what that looks like with my kid, right? Like, I don’t have kids yet. But hopefully, God blesses me with a split some kids. And so, they’ll be able to share that kind of similar moment with them. I’m really looking forward to in terms of what I’ve learned, but then what they’re going to teach me too, about how America is progressing.

Doug Lindsay  33:46

I think a lot of times when we look at leaders, and especially successful leaders, we just assume it's all good and it's there's all this good stuff, but we don't always understand that kind of behind the scenes that sometimes you have to do is downshifts, right? It's not all up. Sometimes we have those ups and downs we've got to deal with right?

Maj. Nate Dial  34:00

One-hundred percent. And sometimes yourself taking a knee, right? Like, I'm not all here either. And being again, approachable and accountable of saying, “I'm not all here, so I need to work on me.” And in practice what you preach. I always think it's quite funny when I see squadron commanders talk about family time and balance, and then I see them in their squadron at 7:30 p.m. at night, right? If you're doing that, everybody then feels obligated to a TOS if you want balance right it's how are you practicing what you're preaching there, right? Are you leaving at 5 even though we know we have a lot of work to do, but we'll get to it tomorrow? Or hey, um, when I was a flight commander, I used to always show up at 8:15, so, like, 45 minutes afterwards, because I always worked out in the mornings based on like, I prioritize my fitness. I know the duty days or 7:30 but I'm gonna show up at 8:15 because I prioritize my health and like working out. I hope you do too. And that I would always on Fridays if I could, I’d let everybody go around like to And then just stay for the rest of the day. The treadle people have balanced around, like, hey, like, everybody else can leave, I'll handle myself on a Friday and start your weekend off now. So, try to, like — that's part of the accountability, responsibility. I think that we all, as leaders, or people, and the hardest part is practicing what you preach, especially when things get hard, is how do you sustain the idea or the principle, when sometimes the short-term benefit will feel good in the moment, but overall, for the principle or the objective, you might not be achieving that?

Doug Lindsay  35:36

What do you do for your own development, to kind of keep you sharp, you keep showing up ready for the next rep?

Maj. Nate Dial  35:42

I have a lot of mentors and friends outside of the military. And so sometimes I normally try to reach out to them of challenges that they're facing and dealing with, and asking questions around that, to try to get a feel for how different industries are dealing with certain items or friends of mine. So, that's an enriching part of it. And then I could also offer, like, some of my military experiences to those same people. So, that's kind of a nice back-and-forth of kind of intellectual jabbing, and support for one another.  A big thing for me is I start pretty much every day off 30 minutes every day with a devotional, some, again, religious so I started with the Bible, then, like, kind of meditation. So, that kind of keeps me centered, balanced every day, kind of a consistent foundation every day if I'm going to start my day. And then for the enriching part of I'm a huge biography person. So, I read biography, I think real life is always better than fiction. So, I try to read up on that, and then I'm a big self-health person, I'll go that's podcast. So, those are that but then again, to the balance part of it. I'm a huge sports guy. So, your Rich Eisens, Dan Patricks. Bomani Jones’s, Stephen A Smith, like I listen to those people to try to let myself come down and be a normal person and be relatable to others who are who I lead. So, I try to nurture both sides of it, like my personal like, let's just be entertained and decompress. But also, hey, I see what else is out there.

Doug Lindsay  37:09

Sounds like there's a lot of different ways that you invest into there to make sure that you show up and be present the way you want to right?

Maj. Nate Dial

100% 100%. N

Doug Lindsay  37:09

Nate, one of the things that sometimes people will have debates on is that leaders are born versus leaders are made or somewhere in between. Do you mind sharing your thoughts about kind of how you think about that based on your the work that you've done and your own practical experience or leaders born and they made? Or what does that? What does that look like?

Maj. Nate Dial  37:34

I definitely have a nurture-over-nature person. I just think too much of life has shown me that, especially around high-leverage moments, right? So there, my dad taught me something very similar. But the quotes, in easier way to articulate the idea that people don't rise to the occasion they revert to their training, so in necessitates the obvious question is, “How good is your training?” And so I think, while people could have some, like natural skill sets around leadership, I think, to hit your full potential, you've got to be nurturing that over time. And you only really get that through reps; you only get that through leadership challenge. That's why the Academy is so awesome with the leadership laboratory that we have there. And why in a lot of ways, I prefer the Air Force Academy model over West Point where West Point, a lot of their top cadets stay the same over the whole year, versus our Academy changes essentially three times the summer, the fall and the spring, because it gives more people more opportunities to have some of those leadership challenges to try to grow and develop. So, I'm a big believer in that — that you need reps to be able to get there. Could you get lucky once or twice, but I think to really hone your skills, your potential, I think you have to have some type of environment that nurtures that out of you.

Doug Lindsay  38:51

Exactly right. You know, we may all have different starting points on how we show up. But how we engage in what we do and how we do those reps and how often we do those reps are fully up to us and how we're going to how we're going to manage that right? I can't necessarily control where I start, but I can control how I finish and how I engage with the process. Right?

Different for sure. A-firm. 100% agree with that.

You we're successful at the Academy, you're successful in the Air Force, you're a little over midway through your career, what advice do you have for young leaders?

Maj. Nate Dial  39:20

The biggest thing is control the controllables. And so, by that, I mean you control your energy, you control your attitude, you control your effort. And most importantly, you control how you respond to adversity. People are always taking notice of that. So, if you control the controllables and you worry about you show up every day with high energy or positive energy, you give everything great effort, people are going to want to help you. People are going to see that and follow you with that. And then you control your attitude. So how do you treat people? How do you approach people? How do you operate in your day-to-day life? People respond to that. And so, I think always having that in mind of control the controllables, especially around those four items, I bet people would tell people to focus on that. And through those reps, as you get older, you'll get more tools in the toolkit. But I would start with that.

Doug Lindsay  40:12

Do you mind maybe sharing one of those adversities you faced and how you kind of move through that in terms of maybe a challenge that you faced, and you had to sit there and go, “How am I going to respond to this?” and maybe how that shaped you, or maybe a pivotal one that you wouldn't mind sharing?

Maj. Nate Dial  40:27

I'll go with, yeah, I'll start with pilot training, I think. So even though we talked about a little bit at some of these like valleys before, I never had really been in a dark place before. But pilot training was pretty dark for me, because it was the first time where I was, you know, an average or below average performer. This thing I always wanted my whole life, as we've talked about already, of being a pilot in the Air Force, I've done all the right things, and hit all the highs. You can hit educational at the Academy that to get so close to your dream and not be a great performer was rough. And so, I think part of that was a great journey of just how do you deal with that kind of adversity and not performing as you thought you would, or how you could? I was, you know, went to an 89 ride and T-6s. So, for people who aren't familiar with a pilot training that's like your, if you fail this, right, like you're out of the program, pretty much. And so, it takes some hooks to get there. And so, I was flying and got through that. So, that was kind of, you know, seeing the precipice of the cliff, and then getting yourself off of it. But what was nice about that was like the light bulb went off later, and T-38. And I had the tie for the top check ride for the initial check ride to gates at Shepherd. So, the light bulb eventually went off. And so, some of that with me, too, was being at Shepherd, it's designed to be a single seat fighter pilot place. And so, you know, just trying to deal with that whole situation there at inject was very interesting for me. Obviously, I wrote about in one of my pieces. But what that experience taught me about seeing the precipice and then coming back being somebody was trying so hard but not performing. What it helped me do? Honestly, it's empathize with people who are struggling. So, I know a lot of people who are at the Academy talk about, like, you know, “Chemistry was my crucible,” or “Water survival was my crucible,” and like, I gotta always go at it. And while I had not great performances, everything was really high, right? So, you don't get to become the cadet wing commander and not perform at a pretty high rate in the fall. So, while I had challenges, it was nothing that I didn't overcome or weren't essentially speed bumps, that was the first like, no kidding, like, I might not make it through this program moment. And so, with that, that just gave me a lot of empathy for people and allowed me to ask better questions, when especially people who are high performers who are in this weird doldrum, I can ask a lot more questions. And I kind of get some of those feelings that I felt back then. So, that's one of those challenges that I think that I would talk through around just making me a better leader were in the in when I was living in it, it felt horrible and terrible. But being on the other end of it, 2, 3, 4 years from then, and I’ll give you an example. So, I had an airman who worked for me, you can fast forward see, it’s probably 2016-ish, who was top linguist coming out, was a distinguished graduate of his cryptological program came to me and he was going through doing some crazy stuff, right? How to get like an article 15 from the commander or whatnot. And so, when that was happening, I just sat him down and we have a really good conversation around like, “Hey, man, like, this is weird, like, whatever this is, right now, it's not it.” And so, I got to share a little bit about my story about pilot training or whatnot. And so, we got to talk and I said, “Hey, man, so I'm gonna do usually take a week leave, go home, get away from this place, like, reset, come back and then let's, let's talk again.” So, he was able to do that. And then we put them right into the ALS program. So, that’s like the airman leadership school. So, when they go from being an airman to sergeant's and our Air Force, everybody it's a it's a big kind of bridge moment for them to have educational development for their personal military education. And I challenged him. I said, “Hey, man, let's get back on this DG train. Let's, let's have this be a top performer. Again, this is your opportunity to recover, right? We, we hit this high, we got this whole group of teens, and now we're coming back. And so let's, let's make it happen.” And he finished No. 1 this class, and he was back on the train. So, I could use that example of where, you know, my personal crucible was able to hopefully help me as a leader relate to somebody and then hopefully, now granted, the kid did all the work. He's amazing; he's doing great things now. But to have a little bit of an impact on that, I think, was only because I went through my own hardship. So that's kind of that empathy that I talked about as a leader of having this moment knowing that it's going to prepare me to lead somebody in the future.

Doug Lindsay  44:44

It wasn't just that you had gone through a hardship but then you were open, honest, transparent about that as well that you were able, willing to share that aspect with him so that you can go through that process, right? So, it's just to be human about it. Anything else that you'd like to leave our listeners with respect to, you know, leadership or any other topics that we talked about today?

Maj. Nate Dial  45:08

I think the biggest thing is, just be authentic. I think we all have strengths, weaknesses. And so, being authentic to yourself of how are you building a team that highlights your strengths that covers your weaknesses, and being self-reflecting self-critical and knowing what those are? So, I think that's probably the first thing I think for any leader, I think all the best ones I've been around have all been very, very self-aware. And so, I think that will be the challenge, I think, for everybody try to how are you self-aware around strengths and weaknesses? And then, the second one is, you know, don't be afraid to be vulnerable. Now, you can't be oversharing. But you're gonna kind of know those spots where you can be vulnerable. And don't be afraid of that. Some of the — I can think about a wing commander who talked about his divorce in a public forum, and how he had to take a knee and go to mental health and everything else. I was like, that's really inspiring for where the wing commander didn't talk about that openly at an all call, I was like, “Man, that's powerful to me.” And so, I think, you know, you're gonna kind of pick and choose those moments. And I was gonna be a wing commander, but you'll know those moments. And so, I would try to tell people as I try to think about that.

Doug Lindsay  46:21

Thank you for your transparency. Thank you for your journey, and the example that you're setting for all the grads out there and everything that you do. And thank you for your time today and being on the Long Blue Leadership podcast. Nate, in case some of our listeners want to reach out to you and connect with you, do you have some social media handles or some ways that they can get a hold of you?

Maj. Nate Dial  46:38

Yeah, sure. If the first one so all the publications and whatnot are on my personal website. So that's www.drnathandial.com. So, drnathandial.com, is my personal website. You can see all the publications, my Twitter handle, where I publish a lot of things there is therealnatedial  is the handle. LinkedIn, Nathan Dial, you can find me sure if you're part of the long blue line probably have a common connection or two. So, feel free to add me there. And that's my socials and look forward to connecting with you all.

Doug Lindsay  47:12

Sounds great. Thank you so much.

Maj. Nate Dial  47:15

Thank you so much for having me and look forward to talking to you sometime in the future.