Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79 - 5 Values for Leaders

In Episode 10 of Long Blue Leadership, Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79, now president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association, discusses his leadership philosophy, and emphasizes the importance of continuous learning, effective communication, family, and the five core values by which he lives. Listen now!

Burt Field, a retired Lieutenant General and CEO of the Air and Space Forces Association, discussed his career and leadership philosophy. He highlighted his upbringing as an Air Force brat, his academic journey at the Air Force Academy, and his early leadership roles. Field emphasized the importance of continuous learning, effective communication, and avoiding being an "asshole" in leadership. He shared impactful experiences, such as leading during the 2011 Japan earthquake and tsunami, and the significance of family support. Field also discussed the Air and Space Forces Association's efforts in advocacy, education, and family resilience, stressing the need for strong national security and defense.

Lt. Gen. Burt Field, USAF (Ret.), is President and Chief Executive Officer of the Air & Space Forces Association, leading the Association’s professional staff in its mission to advocate, educate, and support the Air & Space Forces. As CEO, he oversees operations and resourcing for AFA and its 113,000 members, including events, publications, and the Mitchell Institue for Aerospace Studies, the nation’s only think tank dedicated to air and space power.

A veteran of 35 years of Air Force service, Field retired from active duty in 2015 following his final tour, as Deputy Chief of Staff for Operations, Plans, and Requirements. Throughout his career, Field commanded a squadron, the Air Force Weapons School, three wings, a numbered Air Force, and a sub-unified command. A command pilot with over 3,400 flying hours in the F-16 and F-22, he served twice on the Joint Staff and completed a tour in the State Department as the military assistant to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, the Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan. In his last assignment, he led policy and requirements decision-making for air, space, irregular warfare, counter-proliferation, homeland security, and cyber operations. Prior to that assignment, he served as the Commander of United States Forces, Japan, and Commander of 5th Air Force from 2010-2012 where he led the U.S. military response to support Japan during the earthquake, tsunami, and nuclear disaster of 2011.

Following his retirement, he served as the Vice President of Strategic Planning for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, developing strategies that guided and contributed to over $5 billion in growth in a five-year period. He also managed a $500 million New Business Funds portfolio for independent research and development. Since 2020, he has been an independent defense consultant, served as a subject matter expert working with and mentoring Airmen at all levels, and a member of the Board of Trustees for the U.S. Air Force Academy Falcon Foundation.

Field graduated from the Air Force Academy in 1979 and earned a master’s degree in business administration from Golden Gate University in San Francisco. He and his wife, Lisa, have two sons, both officers in the USAF.

- Bio image and copy credit: AFA.org

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GUEST: Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field ’79 | Host: Lt. Col. (Ret.) Naviere Walkewicz ’99

My guest today is Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Burt Field USAFA Class of ’79, president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association. He spent 35 years in the Air Force, retiring in 2015 as deputy chief of staff for operations, plans and requirements. Gen. Field has held many positions of leadership throughout his career, including squadron command, the Air Force Weapons School and three wings. He has served as a command pilot with over 3,400 hours in the F-16 and F-22. He completed a tour in the State Department as the military assistant to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke. He has also served as the commander of United States Forces, Japan, and commander of the 5th Air Force from 2010 to 2012. In his post military career, he served as vice president of strategic planning for Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. He has been an independent defense consultant and has served as a subject matter expert, working with and mentoring airmen. He is also a member of the board of trustees for the United States Air Force Academy Falcon Foundation. Today, we'll talk with Gen. Field about his life before, during and after the Academy. We'll discuss his role in leading the Air & Space Forces Association. And finally, we'll ask the general to share advice in leadership development. Gen. Field, welcome to Long Blue Leadership.

OK, yes, sir, Burt. Will do. And I will say that was quite an introduction. You have had an incredible and ongoing career.

Well, frankly, and no false modesty, I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time and take advantage of the opportunities presented to me.

Well, I appreciate you saying that, and I think our listeners are really going to enjoy hearing about what some of those right places at the right time kind of look like. But here's what we do at Long Blue Leadership: We like to rewind the clock a little bit and start with Burt as a child. What were you like growing up? Where was home?

Well, I'm an Air Force brat. My dad was a fighter pilot. I like to say his first assignment was the Korean War, flying F-86s and his last flight was in an F-4 over Hanoi. Now, didn't get shot down, but that was his last flight. So, I grew up traveling around both country and the world and went to a bunch of different elementary schools and then three high schools before I ended up at the Air Force Academy.

Wow. I can imagine some of our listeners have also been some kind of service brat. As I always say, I was an Air Force brat as well. Are you an only child? Do you have siblings?

I have three sisters. I have one older sister and two younger sisters, which irritated me to no end when I was a kid, but now we couldn't be closer.

They did not. None of them did. My older sister’s a doctor. My next down is an accountant and CFO, and the one below that is a bunch of different medical community things and a nutritionist.

I was, but interestingly enough, I never really thought about it growing up. My dad just happened to be in the Air Force. He just happened to fly airplanes. And you know, whoever you were, your dad was a doctor, lawyer, plumber, dentist, truck driver, whatever, and now let's go play ball. And that's pretty much the extent of it. But when I was in high school, I knew that I needed to start figuring out what I was going to do, because I'm pretty sure my dad wasn't going to let me just lay around the house after I graduated. And I was definitely afraid of being bored, and nothing really sounded good — doctor, lawyer, dentist, plumber, truck driver — none of it was good. So, I came into the house one day in my junior year, and I attribute this to the Air Force Association: The magazine was laying on our coffee table, and it was face down, and on the back was a picture of the F-15, which was one of the brand new airplanes that was coming out. And I looked down at it, and for whatever reason, it clicked, and I said, “That does not look boring.” And I went and talked to my dad, because I figured he might know how to do this. So, he did some research for me, and he said, “Well, to go to pilot training…" And this was 1974 and that's the wind down of the Vietnam War and letting a lot of people out of the Air Force, “…to go to pilot training, you have to be an Air Force Academy graduate, or distinguished graduate from ROTC.” Well, my dad had retired, or was about to retire, and we were going to move to Florida for my senior year, and I was going to go to the University of Florida, like everybody in my family did, except for two, and so I knew that the Air Force Academy would provide me an avenue, and the University of Florida would provide me an avenue to be a bellboy down in a Key West hotel when I graduated.

So you chose the Air Force Academy, of course. So, that's interesting. Forty-five years later, you are now the president and CEO of the Air & Space Forces Association, which was what kind of caught your eye in high school.

It's really kind of amazing. And the editor of the magazine — they have a bunch of back issues at our headquarters building, and he found that magazine.

Oh, that's amazing. What a story. And we're going to talk more about that. I really want to hear more about that role, but let's stay in the childhood range a little bit. So you were going to go to the Air Force Academy. Were you already involved in sports? Was that something—

Yeah, so, I played baseball growing up. We moved around a lot, so it was hard to play a lot of other sports. I did Pop Warner football, played basketball, you know, on teams growing up. And I was a good athlete but not a great athlete, and so I wasn't recruited for going to come here to the Academy. But I played football, I wrestled and played baseball until my sophomore year, when I blew up my shoulder and couldn't throw anymore. Then I just wrestled and played football for the rest of my high school career, and then when I came here, I just played intramurals until a friend of mine that was a couple years older was on the rugby team, and so he kind of said, “Hey, come on out, you'll like this.” And so it was the rugby club back then, and it was a way to get out of stuff in the afternoons when you're a freshman. So I came down and I played on the rugby team for a few years.

It is. And it was really that way back then. It was all local Colorado sports teams. You know, the guys who were 45 and over down to other colleges around the state.

So, speaking of family, how did your — I think I know how your dad felt about you wanting to come to the Air Force Academy. How about your mom?

She was pretty proud of me. Both of them were mad because I only applied to one place.

It was here or a bellboy somewhere. But they were pretty proud of me, and they were really proud, obviously, when I graduated.

So, you came into the Academy. You had a little bit of an idea of what to expect, because your dad had been the military, right?

Because you are immediately thrown into the deep end of a very cold, murky pool and told to start swimming. But the interesting thing: I came out with a few guys from my local area, and the way we did it back then is, you told the Academy what hotel you were gonna stay at, and they came and picked you up in a bus and they drove you onto the Academy and dropped you off at the base of the ramp, and you jumped off the bus, and all your newfound friends started telling you all the things that were wrong with you personally, with your family, your genetics, your upbringing, and how you would never amount to anything ever in your entire life. And then they take you — I wasn't really good with authoritarian figures.

Well, I can imagine, with three sisters, you probably chose your own path, right?

So, you can imagine — as we're most of my classmates. We all are kind of like that. So, I wasn't sure that this was for me, but it was 1975 and everybody had long hair. So as soon as I got my head shaved, I said, “Well, I'm staying here at least until I get my hair back.”

That kept me here. And so then I kept staying. But that first day was a bit of a shock, as it is with everybody around here. But, I have a great memory. I was standing in line getting something issued to me, and the guy behind me and I started talking, and he actually graduated from the high school that I spent my ninth and 10th grade in in Las Vegas, Nevada. His name's John Pickitt. And so we became friends, and he's the godfather of our oldest child, along with Tom McCarthy, who you met earlier today.

Wow. I mean, it really is… We talk about family a lot in our podcast, and family spans way beyond blood.

Yes, 100%. Wow. So you jumped into that murky pool and making friends along the way. What was life like for you as a cadet? Were you really strong in your academics? I mean, obviously you were an athlete, because you were doing everything.

I mean, everybody did that kind of stuff. So, I got good grades in high school, and I got good grades here, except for one semester. So, I was on the supt’s list every semester except for one. That's just the way it was.

I would do it different now, if I had it to do over again, because I got on the dean's list by cramming instead of doing my homework. And so every young person that goes to the Air Force Academy, I tell them, “There's one way to success and happiness at the Air Force Academy…” I don't tell them this, not that they're going to be happy, because they're not. But I tell them, “Do your homework every night.”

That’s right. I think there was a saying: “If you wait to the last minute, it only takes a minute, but then you get to see…

So, that's no different than a lot of my friends. And back then, you’re pretty restricted to the Academy, especially your first year, and then gradually you get out more and more. So, it wasn't like we were out and about very much.

We stayed around here. We worked out a lot. We played games, sports on the weekends, and that was it.

And were you 1 and 3? What was the squadron change like? Was it 2 and 2 back then?

And so 1 and 3. So, I was in 35 as of Doolie, and the only squadron— 35 and 38, they're still together, but it was carpeted, and we had carpeting, and so we took a lot of heat from people just because of that.

Love that legacy. Great. What a wonderful legacy. So your cadet time sounds like it was pretty pleasant, or…

Oh yes, just like everybody's. Everybody leaves here with a love-hate relationship with the Air Force Academy and it changes over time from mostly hate to mostly love. So, that was no different with us. I had a group of great friends, both in my squadron and outside my squadron, from the rugby team and a couple other places. And so it was like — I tell everybody, 13th, 14th, 15th and 16th grade.

I love that. That's a great way to put that into an analogy, yes, because you're still developing.

Classes, you know, five or six classes a day. I play sports after school. I go home and do homework or avoid homework and go to bed so I can't go out during the weeknights. Can't go out very often on the weekends. And, there you go.

That's right. That's very much like high school, absolutely. So we like to talk about how you developed as a leader, even early on. And so we're getting to know you a little bit better. While you were cadet, did you hold any leadership positions in particular?

Well, I was the — what did I do? I did something as a third-classman. Oh yeah, chief of training? Or whatever.

Back in the day, the the guy that was in charge of training for the freshman. I was an ops officer when I was the, I mean, op sergeant when I was a junior, squadron commander when I was a senior. So nothing hugely out of the ordinary. I like that kind of role and that kind of challenge, but I wanted to stay inside my squadron. So, when I got offered a chance to, “Hey, do you want to be on a group staff or wing staff?” I declined.

So, I didn't want to leave that for six months or four months, or whatever the time period was back then.

So, leadership in your squadron, and this is interesting, and this is a good topic, because some of our listeners, some of the challenges that they experience in leadership is on a peer level, or maybe, you know, how do you lead someone that you're really close with? How do you earn that trust? So maybe you can share some lessons that you have learned about yourself during that time.

Well, I always tell people that the hardest leadership challenge that we face is when you have no authority and you still need to lead, and regardless of what we say about cadet squadron commanders, you know, we can all think we're in charge, but we're not that in charge. And so what you had to do is you had to lead by influence and by doing the right thing. And so whether we agree with that, it's the right thing, because I don't want to do it, because it's no fun, because I'd rather do something else. Everybody knows what you have to do at the Air Force Academy on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, on the way through the week. And so we just went and did it. And I encouraged people to come and do it all with me, whether it's doing drill, whether it's playing intramural sports, whether, “Hey, it's your turn to be the referee for this season,” whether we want to go to these whatever it was. So you just encourage people to do that, and then you talk to people and try to empower them so that they can figure that out on their own, and then later pass that on as leaders themselves.

No, those are really great examples. And I think just leadership tidbits that some of our listeners can take, and it really is some of the best ways, just leading by example and then inviting them to join you on that, absolutely. OK, so your cadet career was, I think, really important to you, because it formed you, and it formed you like you said your brothers, because you were the last class of all men cadets together. So how did that translate? And if I may be so bold, you started having women cadets there while you're at the Academy as well. Can you share some of the dynamics of that then at the Academy, and maybe some of the stories that you saw of how that really evolved into a stronger Academy that we have today?

Yeah, let me put some of this in perspective, and I'll start with a story. I get a large ration of crap from my friends that are in ’80 and ’81 that I'm really close with because of my role in terrorizing the women of the Class of ’80, which I said, “Exactly, what role was that?” Basically, these guys considered us the source of all evil. My perspective was different, and it's just my perspective. When I talked to my classmates, most of them — I'm talking about most of them, not all of them — we were children that grew up and came of age in the late ’60s and early ’70s, which was basically that whole protest movement, grow your hair long, protest the Vietnam War, and we really didn't care that much that women were coming into the Air Force Academy, because most of us were smart enough to know that the only reason that women were not in my class and they were in that class was an accident of birth and the accident of when the legislation passed to do the right thing in the United States of America. So there's nothing special about being the last all-male class. There's nothing special about being the first class that had women in it, other than, you know, it was the end of one way of doing business and the beginning of another way of doing business. To your point, I think it makes the Air Force stronger. It certainly makes our Academy better. While they were here, the first semester, all the women were in one part of the state, in one part of the Academy over in Fairchild Hall. And they were only in 20 squadrons, so 1 through 20.

In Vandenberg, I'm sorry. So we're they were only in 1 through 20 the first semester, for whatever reason. Then they came the next semester to our squadron, and you know, well, one of them I'm still friends with, so, to me, it was a no brainer. I wish I was more profound on this. This is one of the things that my friends from later classes yell at me about. But I didn't consider it to be that big of a deal. I didn't, at the time, think that this is some big historical event and change in the Air Force or the military, or anything else that we could all maybe talk about better today than I could back then. So for me and my friends that I knew, it was not an issue. I don't think I treated women any different than I treated men, and I don't think I treated women or men badly, regardless of my role and their role at the Academy.

That sounds terrible, but, I mean, I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about social implications of race, sex, gender, however you want to put it. I was just trying to get through the day without getting yelled at, like everybody else.

Thank you for sharing that, because I think it's sometimes a question that people have, and it's really helpful to hear a perspective that really is, “We're all just trying to get through the Air Force Academy, we all come in, and we hope that we all graduate.”

Yeah, and some of them, very impressive, had huge careers. You know, Susan Helms, just one of my heroes, frankly, as a person, as an officer, that have nothing to do with her role in space. That just makes me more in awe of her. But, you know, there's a lot of great, great people out there, and a lot of them are women.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for sharing that, and I appreciate that you said that. You know, Gen. Holmes is one of your heroes as well. Let's talk about some of those that maybe inspired you in leadership roles. It could be while you're a cadet, or maybe early in your career as an officer after you graduated. Maybe talk about some of those influencers.

Well, I had some great AOCs. My freshman AOC was a guy that was a Fast FAC in Vietnam, and actually was the guy that gave me a ride in a T-37, which was fantastic and really solidified what I wanted to do. My sophomore and junior year, my AOC was not that guy.

We'll probably talk about leadership philosophy later, and if you'll remind me, my last bullet on my leadership philosophy partly came from him. And then my senior year, we had a great guy named Ken Lawrence that came in that several of us are still in touch with. And he was both a welcome relief and a great role model for us as we spent that last year here at the Academy, before we went off. I went out in the Air Force and my first two squadron commanders, the first one was a guy named Tiny West, 6-foot-5, 270 pounds, barely fit into an F-16, and taught me how to fly fighters.

Just a great guy. A second squadron commander was a guy named John Jumper, who ended up being the chief of staff of the Air Force and is still kind of like a second father to me.

Let's see. And then multiple people along the way that you know, from crusty old majors and young captains that taught me how to fly the F-16 and in what we called RTU at the time, now, FTU in how we kind of learn together. Because when my class showed up at Hill in the B course, we went into the 34th at the time, tactical training fighter squadron. We were their first class, and the high-time guy in that squadron with F-16 time had 30 hours. So they were teaching all of us second lieutenants how to do this. Went from there down to Nellis and served under Tiny and John Jumper. So, that was how I started. And there's lots of great people in that time frame that obviously I'm still in touch with, and taught us how to fly. There's my squadron commander in Korea, which was my second assignment, another great role model. And then just on and on. When I came back to Nellis on my third assignment, I worked for a guy named Sandy Sandstrom. Sandy was one of my RTU instructors, also, and we became really lifelong friends. And he and his wife, Jeannie, have sadly passed away, but we, Lisa and I keep in touch with both their children to this day. Yeah. But anyway, there's a lot of great leaders, both above us in squadron commander roles, and then you watch your fellow officers and brothers and sisters, and see and you learn stuff, watching them, how they develop relationships, how they train, how they identify what's important, how they communicate, how they focus, how they connect. All of those things are important, and you can learn something from everybody around you. And if you don't, you're probably missing out.

I appreciate that perspective. I think, especially as someone who is more experienced in leadership, the fact that you are looking to continue to learn and see what you can kind of pick up from those even that support you and serve under you. Can you share an example? Is there one that sticks out in your memory of someone that you're like, “Wow, that's something I really took back”?

Oh, yeah, so, there's thousands of these. I'll tell you two stories. So I'm a squander commander, and I had a friend, a very close friend of mine, who was a squadron commander, and one of his guys was coming to our squadron, and he said, “This is a great guy. You're going to love him. Really good pilot…,” blah, blah, blah. It's his second assignment. And so he shows up in the squadron and we have about four or five guys about that that time in their career, and they're ready to become flight leads, which is leading flights in the fighter community. And so I put him in without really thinking this through, and one of the other guys came up and said, “Hey, I need to talk to you.” And he came in my office, and he explained to me how I wasn't looking at everybody through the same lens and was probably missing some of the things other people were seeing. And I mean, pretty blunt, pretty focused, not yelling, and just a straightforward conversation. And I sat back and thought for about five seconds, and I said, “Holy cow, Bruce Fisher is totally correct. I have missed the boat on this, and I'm never going to do that again.”

And so that was one guy. The second example I have is in Japan when I was a 3-star general. I was there during the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear disaster, and it was a wild time. It started on a Friday. On Monday, so Friday was the earthquake and the tsunami. Saturday was the first explosion in one of the nuclear reactors. Monday was the second explosion in another nuclear reactor. On Monday, I also went up with the Japanese minister of defense and the head of their military to a place up near the epicenter, or the center of where the disaster area was, and they stood up, for the first time, a joint task force in Japan to take to take on the role of trying to work through all the things they had to work through. So we tried to land at the airport and could not. We tried to land at one of the air bases and barely could in a helicopter, in a helicopter. So I flew over Sendai Airport, where we couldn't land, and it was totally flooded, and it looked like when you tell your 5-year-old son to pick up his room and he shoves everything over into the corner, so there's trucks and cars and toys and giraffes and boxes over in the corner of the room and he says, “I'm good.” That is exactly what this airport looked like, except those were real cars, those were real cranes, those were real age equipment that was working on airlines, all swept away into the corner. So came back, and that night, met a guy named Rob Toth. Now we were getting a lot of people in to help, and Rob Toth had actually, he was the commander of the special ops group that was down at Kadena that we had brought up to Yakota. And he said to me, “Sir, my name is Rob Toth.” He's a colonel. And he said, “My guys have been up to Sendai, and I think we can open Sendai in about two weeks.” And I looked at Rob, and I said, “Rob, no way,” except I added a word in between “no” and “way.” And he said, “Sir, I know how you feel, like, I knew you'd feel like that, but just listen to me.” And I said, “No, that thing's not gonna be open until the summer.” And he said, “Sir, hold on. Let me tell you something.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm starting listening to him, I'm thinking, “OK, here's a special ops guy telling me how his experts think that they can go up and solve an enormous problem for us. They know how to do this. And I am telling him no, because I flew over it in a helicopter and it was flooded. Why don't you just ignore your opinion and say yes to a good idea?” Because all I have to do is say yes, and the worst that can happen is I'm going to be right. The best that can happen is he's going to be right and they're going to open the airport. Well, guess who was right? Not me.

So, three weeks later, the first airplane, well, two weeks, a week later, the first airplane landed on it, and three weeks later, the first commercial airplane landed there.

And it's all from somebody that, you know, he had never met me before. I'm a 3-star general. He's a colonel. Took a lot of courage to tell me that, and keep persisting when I said, “Forget it,” because I was busy and didn't believe it, and I had just been there, so if you're not listening to people, you're probably not gonna make the best decisions.

Oh, that's fantastic. So, your career was outstanding. I mean, I think you had the opportunity to really lead and impact a lot of lives by the time you put on your third star. Had you known that was your destiny? When you graduate the Academy you want to be pilot. We knew you went into the Academy to fly.

Yeah. So I ended up going to third lieutenant to Langley Air Force Base. And I kind of, I was fortunate enough, because I traded with a guy that was from California. I was going to George. He was from California. He had the Langley slot, so we switched, and I went out there because I wanted to fly in an F-15 to make sure I liked it, because it was after sophomore year, before junior year. And I knew that I wasn't all that fired up about the Air Force Academy at the time. It was not the most fun place I'd ever been. And so I wanted to ensure that this was something I really wanted to do. Fortunately, I went to a great squadron, great people. They welcomed us with open arms, and I flew three or four times, five times during that third lieutenant and just loved every second of it. Now, of course, I didn't fly the F-15, except in the back seat a couple times later on. But I was lucky enough to get an F-16 out of pilot training. So 1980, F-16, go through that RTU with those guys, and we're all learning this together and into a squadron where we're all learning this together. Cool part about the first squadron I was in is we had… there was a squadron, which means that we had 25 people in the squadron. So squadron commander, an ops officer, and 23 other folks. And when I went in there, 12 of us were lieutenants and classmates.

And so it was really cool to go through that experience with people like that. But it's 1980, the Cold War is in full swing. We're pretty sure that we're going to be in a fight with the Soviet Union, and basically I didn't want to die in that fight. And so I figure what you need to do to not die is be the best there is. And I was went to work with a bunch of other guys that felt the same way, and so we helped each other. We competed with each other. We pulled people along. We got pulled along. And we all became really good at what we did. And it was just that drive to be really good at what was important — which was flying — that drove me, and that's what drove me to try to go to the Weapons School. That's what drove me to go back as an instructor. That's what drove me to train people to be the best that they could be, so that when we went to combat, we would all come back, because anybody can lead men and women into combat. I want people that lead them home.

Anyway, so that's what drove me. That's what drove me. You know, because I had friends that didn't come home.

So part of what you've shared with us today, and I think we're really appreciative of how much you're sharing, because I think it gives us a sense of really who you are, and the family aspect with your brothers, the family aspect with your extended family at the Academy, on your teams. When did your family come into play? Because I had the opportunity to meet your wife, Lisa, and she's lovely. When did she come into your life?

Well, I like to tell everybody that I met her at a bachelor party, which I did. But, we were in pilot training at Willie Air Force Base in Phoenix, and somebody was getting married, and we're going to have a bachelor party, but it already required way too much planning, and somebody had to host it, and that meant somebody had to go buy stuff for it. And basically we just went down to where we went every Friday night, and that was the bachelor party. And I met her that night, and then we just started talking on the phone, and we started dating, and then we got married. And so we got married in 1981 and she's still putting up with me.

Oh, yeah, so I married her a year and a half after I graduated, and so we have two sons, and both of those boys are in the military. My oldest son is a University of Florida grad.

But he's smart. He graduated with a high GPA, and anyway, he's a maintenance officer in the Air Force. And my youngest son is a C-130 pilot in the Air Force, and he's the 2008 grad from the Academy, and he's married to our daughter-in-law, Natasha. And right now, both David and Natasha fly C-130s for the Alaska Air Guard up in Anchorage in Elmendorf.

Not only that, well, one of the reasons, when we bring up Lisa, when I met her, she said, we started talking, and I have short hair, because most people, have long hair. She goes, “Obviously, you're in the Air Force.” And she had told that to her roommate, and I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “Oh, my dad was in the Air Force.” And we said, “Where'd you all live, and what'd your dad do?” Well, her and my dad flew together and so stationed in the same places, sometimes at the same time. And when we went home and called our parents and said, “Hey, do you know this guy or this guy?” Without hesitation, both of them said, “Oh yeah, I know Dave.” “I know Burt,” and so they were in the other squadron. They didn't really hang out together, but they knew each other. So both my dad and my father-in-law were F-100 pilots and fighter pilots. And so Lisa is also an Air Force brat. So both of us are — we call ourselves nomads because we've never really lived anywhere longer than five years.

I used to say that, and now I actually can. But can you claim anywhere longer than five years now?

No, getting close though. So I've been in five years, five years in a couple places, but never longer.

Yeah. So anyway, this is one of the things we're doing in AFA now. And I think the Air Force is Air Force and Space Force are recognizing that if you want strong and resilient airmen and guardians, you need strong and resilient families behind them. And you need to have that kind of family dynamic that's supportive of what you do with your life and what the country is asking of you and your family to be all in and if we can work with the families to change that dynamic, to make sure that we're focused on building strong and resilient families, then the strong and resilient guardian and airmen will come out of that effort. So both the Air Force and the Air & Space Forces Association, that's part of what we're doing these days.

Before I get into the last couple of questions I want to ask you, what is the best way that anyone that's listening can learn more about the Air & Space Forces Association?

Well, we can go to afa.org, simple as that, and do that. That shows you how to contact us. For another thing, you can join, which is what I would like you to do, and become a member, and then you get access to all of that information. And you can find out how to do that again, on that website. But joining gives you access to that information. It gives you access to what we do. It tells you where the chapters are that are close to you, that are similar-minded people doing similar things. And we have about 120,000 members right now. We have about 230 chapters in every state except Maine, and in several foreign countries where we have airmen and guardians stationed. Those chapters can do a lot of this work, whether it's working with your local government officials, with your state officials, like your congressmen or your senators, and it arms you with the things that you can deliver these messages with. It also arms you with how can I get access to these kind of programs that help with my family, my friends’ family, the people I work with, their family. Where can I direct an airman when she needs some help? Where can I put a guardian in touch with somebody that can help him get through something that he's got a problem with? So, you have a lot of resources at your disposal that can help both you and your brothers and sisters you work with

That is outstanding. So I mentioned two questions. I'll start with the first and then we'll come back after a short break. The first one is, some of our listeners aspire, at some point to be a C-suite executive. What's the coolest thing that you've done, or that's happened for you since being CEO?

Well, take a minute to think about that. But first we're going to take a moment and thank you for listening to Long Blue Leadership. The podcast publishes Tuesdays in both video and audio, and is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Watch or listen to all episodes of Long Blue Leadership at longblueleadership.org. So have you had a chance to think about something cool that's happened since you’ve been CEO?

I would say that the coolest thing about this job is that you get some pretty good access. Because of what we try to do in support of the Space Force and the Air Force, I've been able to spend some time with the chief, the CSO and the secretary. And you know, the vice chief, the vice CSO, chief master sergeant of the Air Force, chief master sergeant the Space Force. So that part has been really interesting to me. Next week, I'm going to something with Secretary Austin, and so that that's kind of interesting. And then we do some work up on the Hill. And so I've been able to go up there and meet a few of the members up at the Hill. The good news, though, is that I knew a lot of those guys already, so, you know, because I'm old and. But it's still good to be able to listen directly from a leader on what he or she really is trying to communicate, as opposed to get it interpreted by somebody else or through some rumor or, “Here's why their vision doesn't match up with what I know we should be doing.” So, it helps us in our mission to kind of advocate for those strong forces when you know exactly what the leadership is thinking and what they're driving at.

No, that's powerful, and that's transparency that you're able to bring to the members of your organization and all of their families. So, we like to leave our listeners with kind of leadership lessons, and I wanted to go back earlier in our conversation. You said, “Remind me to tell you about a leader that's shaped one of my bullets, maybe on how not to lead.” Or something to that effect. So what are your lessons of leadership that you want our leaders to take away today from you?

Well, so first off, you can never stop learning. You have to learn. And whether it's leadership or anything else— when I was in Japan during that disaster, I didn't know the first thing about nuclear power plants. Virtually nothing. I knew that there's some kind of nuclear reaction. They put something in water. It made steam power to turbine. Viola, you have electricity, period. There's a chance I might not even know that. So, I found a couple books that in the three or four hours a day that I didn't have work, I read so I could learn about nuclear power plants, the effect of nuclear radiation on the human body. What we can with withstand, what makes you sick and what kills you. So you have to always learn. And that goes double for being a leader, and you can never rest on your laurels. And so, I have been fortunate to be in a lot of different leadership positions and work for a lot of great leaders, most of them military, but some of them civilian as well, like Richard Holbrooke, a completely different leadership style than most military people. In fact, when I was working for Richard, my direct report was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Mike Mullen. And I talked with Adm. Mullen virtually daily, and my other virtual three-times-a-week conversation was with Dave Petraeus, who was running Afghanistan at the time, because of what a Richard's job was and they always want to know what he was thinking. So, it was interesting to watch all three of those who have three distinct leadership styles and learn from take the best from all of that. It was a learning experience. But the upshot of it is, having been exposed to people like that and being able to ask them questions about leadership, why they did things, helped shape my leadership philosophy. So, one of the things that I think everybody should do is kind of define what they think leadership is and have a leadership philosophy. And so, the way I look at leadership, it's, how how do you empower people? How do you inspire people? How do you get people to get the job done? Because you can't do it yourself. You're not going to win the war, you're not going to make all the sales, you're not going to get all the gross profit, you're not going to reduce all the expenses, you're not going to fight all the fights. You're going to be part of a team if you're going to be successful. So, how do you inspire that to happen? And how do you ensure that that team that you're building has the resources that they need? And resources come in all shapes and sizes. Some of it is equipment, some of it is money, some of it is the people that are in those roles? Do they have the education, the training, the experience and access to what they need to be successful? So that's what your job is, in my opinion, as a leader. And then how you go about doing that? You need to have a list of things that you do. So I start with values. You should have a set of values. For the cadets listening, and you're going to go into the Air Force, the Space Force, and if you cross commission into something else, every one of our services has a set of values, which are your values. Now you can have more, but your values include those. But at my stage of life, I have about five, and it's integrity, which everybody knows, and most people say, “Hey, that's when you do the right thing when no one is looking.” In the last four or five years, I added a second one to that, and I call it “fortitude.” Fortitude is when you do the right thing when everybody is looking. Then excellence. You know, from Excellence in All You Do. Teamwork and service. So those are my five values. And so when I make leadership decisions, or when I look at how we're going to move forward, or how we're going to accomplish the mission, it should reflect those values in my decisions, how I act, how I from the biggest thing of creating a here's the strategy, or in objectives on what we're going to accomplish, to the smallest things, like how I conduct a meeting. So, that that's the second thing. So everything comes from that. I think you need to be really good at something. If you want to be a really good leader, you need to be really good at something. So, you got to put in the work when you're young to be really good and understand how hard it is to be really good at something. Normally, when we “grow up,” in quotes, and become leaders of large organizations, there's a whole bunch going on in that organization that you will have little or no expertise in, but you know how to recognize excellence, and you know how to recognize effort that it takes to become excellent. And so you can look for those because you've seen it in yourself. So, that's the other thing. The next one is communication. You cannot communicate enough, and you cannot communicate well enough. So I use this example all the time. I come up with a message, I craft it, I think about it, I write it down, I practice it, and then I deliver it, and it's awesome. I was perfect. Nobody could have misunderstood me. When I'm done with that, and I really think that I have hit the mark with maybe 20%. I probably got to say that again that way or differently, about another 10 or 15 times when I can barely stand to hear myself talk anymore, and I'm still not going to get everybody. So, one of the things that you have to recognize as a leader is you're probably miscommunicating. So, you have to check and recheck to make sure that the message is going out the way you think it should be heard. So, communication is really important, and probably one of the biggest things that infects an organization is somebody misperceiving what somebody else is communicating, and then they get mad, and everybody's feelings get hurt, and on it goes. And we've all seen that. I told you about the “say yes to good ideas.”

That was fantastic. Burt, is there anything that I didn't ask you that you would really like to leave with our listeners today?

I think we pretty much covered it, and I appreciate the opportunity to come on and chat with you and watch your act, because you're very comfortable doing this, and I need to take some lessons from you.

Thank you so much for that compliment. And I must just say it has been a pleasure being on Long Blue Leadershipwith you. I can't wait for our listeners to hear more about your story and the way that you will, I think, affect great change for our Air and Space Force leaders.

Thank you, Naviere, it's really an honor to be on here and I appreciate the opportunity to share some of the lessons that I've been able to learn throughout my career, and also what the Air & Space Forces Association brings to the table, and why our cadets and our grads and all those out there who care about strong Air Forces, strong Space Forces, a strong national security and defense in the future.

Air Force brat, leadership philosophy, Air Force Academy, rugby team, squadron commander, family dynamics, career progression, leadership challenges, communication importance, resilience, Space Force, education programs, family support, military service, leadership lessons

Long Blue Leadership is a production of the Long Blue Line Podcast Network and presented by the United States Air Force Academy Association of Graduates and Foundation